Hardware question

[Devant]

Staryoshi has been working with me to try to fix my fps through a few hardware switches.

If you've been keeping up with my series of 'help me' posts, you know that I'm running 2gb of ram, geforce 9400 gt, and a seriously old sempron POS processor.

Right now, it seems like my performance would improve mostly (without buying a whole new rig) by upgrading my processor to - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103242

more of a story about the processor - my shitty dell PSU is only 305w and won't support a processor much better than this.

as well as my video card to -
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161287&cm_re=hd_4670-_-14-161-287-_-Product

So with those two items, for around 130$ I should be able to get much better fps. Let me know what you guys think before I put in the order.
Think I need to upgrade ram as well?

[Ramanag]

Well, this is well beyond my realm of knowledge of such matters, but you asked me to respond, so I'll say that it couldn't hurt, unless you buy crappy RAM, then it could.

[StarYoshi]

I suggested a X2 5400+ from his 3400+ sempron and a 1gb HD4670 (with the sweet iceq cooler) up from his 9400GT.

That's a great value for $130 ish :D I love that card :P (used it in 3 builds for others :D)

[Biskquik]

The 5400 seems fine, assuming the sockets match. I know there were semprons for the 754 and 939 sockets prior to the AM2s.

For vid cards, I'd pick up something like a 4770 over a 4670. The 4770 is a step down from the 4850 but should be significantly faster than the 4670 and use only slightly more power, should be within the limits of your dell 305W.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150369&cm_re=4770-_-14-150-369-_-Product

[Devant]

Okay well I bought the cpu and graphics card so new question time - Will I need a new heat sink?

[Biskquik]

Okay well I bought the cpu and graphics card so new question time - Will I need a new heat sink?

From the TDP data from the processer, I'd say unlikely. I'd definitely measure take a look at your CPU temps while running a game. If it's maxing 55'C or so on a gameload, I'd definitely consider replacing it.

For temp monitoring I use CoreTemp:
http://www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/

Run it, play a game for a bit, come back and read the max value.

Edit: You may have to apply some thermal paste so the new processor makes a good contact with the old heatsink. I like the Tuniq TX-2 as it's among the more affordable pastes and works better than other popular solutions like Arctic Silver: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835154003

You may have to rub off the old paste caked on the heatsink as well. High concentration isopropyl alcohol works well.

[Bonemasher]

Umm upgrading usually ends in pain. Make sure you do plenty of research into wether any of your old stuff will work with the new stuff. Personally I'd recommend a whole new comp, especially around christmas, there will probably be alot of good deals.

[Biskquik]

True

I usually do not recommend CPU upgrades on pre-builts unless you know the socket and chipset are and make sure the BIOS is up to date. Which is something I'd recommend Devant do. I'm sure StarYoshi knows what he's doing as he seems to have experience in the past.

Video card upgrades really aren't too much of an issue as long as the interface matches. Since he's already had a card 9400GT, which is PCI-e, he can upgrade to the 4670 with little to no problems. You just need to remove the old drivers and get the new ones.

[StarYoshi]

I was initially unaware they made a sempron 3400+ for the am2 socket, my mind went to 939 :P My primary experience lies with Intel platforms, so I suggested he come here first. I steered him away from the 125w 6000+ lol. He plays at a fairly low resolution so the 4670 will aptly handle all of his source needs. I didn't recommend a card with a 6 pin pcie connector just to be on the safe side... the 4670 does not require one. Hopefully any cpu comparability issue (if one exists) can be remedied with a bios update. Dell should have drivers out there. Assuming things go smoothly it will be a sizable upgrade :)

[Devant]

with TF2 running, my current cpu - sempron is at 22 degrees C. K and also - Will I have to update my bios for the new cpu? current bios 1.1.4 Dell. I've been reading online with a lot of people having problems with the latest bios update and I'm wondering if it's necessary to update. Thanks everyone

[eddo]

is the power going to be okay?

[Christian]

Upgrade the PSU and nothing else. You'll notice an instant speed boost.

I upgraded my video card and my FPS and network card started freaking out. Upgraded the PSU and everything leveled out to awesome.

Not enough power = crappy performance.

Looking at your specs says you need to upgrade that PSU, buy a new one big enough to put into a new rig just in case its not the problem and try it out.

[Zero Hour]

Will I have to update my bios for the new cpu?Well, maybe. You should run cpuz (here (http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php)) and look up the mobo to make sure your cpu is compatible.

Also, I might invest in a new psu if you have some extra dough. It's pretty key having a good one.

[Devant]

i know I should but I'm not buying a new psu or any other new parts. The cpu and video card are coming to just help me until I am able to buy a whole new rig. The cpu WILL work with my mobo and with my current power supply i've already checked. I guess my only concern now is about my bios. I hear about dell 1.1.11 bios update fucking with win 7. Anyone know anything? do I even have to update my bios? it's currently 1.1.4

[Biskquik]

The TDP data from the Processor is actually similar to that of the old sempron as what he has now is 65nm and the one he's getting should be 45nm so it consumes less power despite being faster and having an additonal core. The 4670 is going to consume more power than that 9400GT, but the difference between the two is no cause for alarm on the power supply. In peak load, I would not expect the power load to be more than 200W and should not be loading the 12V rail beyond its limits.

Upgrading the PSU is not going to yield a speed boost in any part since it simply supplies power. Insufficient power is going to reduce reliabilty which may result in errors and unexplained shutdowns. It's purely for stability, considering the relatively low specs on these upgraded parts, upgrading the PSU won't be necessary.

[eddo]

I hear about dell 1.1.11 bios update fucking with win 7. Anyone know anything? do I even have to update my bios? it's currently 1.1.4

if you know it's bad, why update it? just stay with 1.1.4 and only update if you see problems that cant be resolved otherwise

[Devant]

just making sure that my new cpu will run windows 7 and everything with the old bios

[Cosmic_Shame]

is that off the dell website, if u still got access to them talk to there people online and shit, they used to help out a little when i used to have problems with my old dell

[$uCkY-p|aYeR]

I don't know everything.. But figuring that it is a dell machine like most dells, hp's, and compaqs. Upgrading to dual core is the right thing to do, but also don't forget that the speed of your memory is very important too. Most of those companies like to boast about how much ram they put in making you feel good but then not telling you how slow the ram speed is. I am going to assume it is ddr2 which they will give you ddr2 667 speed and the most common is DDR2 800 above that would even be better. On top of that they will cut corners by giving you big hard drives and putting in I think 5700 rpm or 5200 can't remember whats below 7200 rpm..7200 being the most common... There is faster but cost more like 10000rpm raptors are nice..

I am pretty knowelgable about AMD's and building computers. Maybe you can post the Dell model number and I can look up the specs.

Oh Biskquik is right also... IF power supply isn't providing enough power you will have shutdowns and lock ups... Mostly it will probably shutdown during the boot up process.

[Snix]

yeah sucky is the man for rates, settings, server and client side of things :) I cant count how many times hes helped me take care of things :D

[StarYoshi]

A 300w dell power supply is plenty for his setup. I'm just hoping his bios supports this processor out of the box... that's my only concern.

[Devant]

it's a dell dimension E521. The Mobo is 0ct103 A03. My current bios is 1.1.4 and people are reporting that the newest bios 1.1.11 doesn't work and screws up windows 7 64bit, but I have 32bit so I can't find any articles referring to that. So what do you think $ucky?

[$uCkY-p|aYeR]

Thanks I will look it all over... windows 7 is pretty good O/S but 64bit does have some problems depending on the computer. but your useing 32bit. I will go look at it now and try to have something after lunch for you...

[Devant]

kk thanks. My hardware arrives tomorrow!

[$uCkY-p|aYeR]

Ok, thanks dell for not giving me specifics on whats in that system.. lol.. basically the specifications state that you could have 557, 667, or 800 speed ram.. so here is a program that when executed will send you to crucial's website look at your installed ram should show you like pc5200 or somthing post that and I can tell you what your speed is..

http:\\www.jason35.com\CrucialScan.exe

[$uCkY-p|aYeR]

oh and they don't give much info but defintly says it supports athlon x2 so you should be fine with it.

[$uCkY-p|aYeR]

You could also install this program it will give you memory speed and hd speed.

http://www.lavalys.com/products.php?ps=UE&page=48&dlid=35&lang=en

[Devant]

My ram speed is...1gb stick 667, and my two 512's are 533

[$uCkY-p|aYeR]

Oh well with the new CPU looks like your memory speed will be the bottleneck.. how gay is dell to stick 3 different sticks in and not even match the speeds.. Looks like your ram is at 533mhz since that is the slowest. a normal fast speed is 800mhz. but like 1066 would ven be better..You building your next machine or getting it already built.. I got a nice parts list for a good fast computer and using old parts from a previous machine only run about 400 bucks.

Also to explain simply how computer works. everything you do goes thru memory then to your CPU, hence why memory speed makes a huge difference in all you do.. If the computer needs anything from harddrive which most everytime it does you will want at least 7200rpm... so in short what you need to look for is:
Memory - ddr2 800mhz minimum higher is better and not much money
Hard drive - 7200rpm if you want to spend some money get a 10000rpm it will almost dble your speed.
CPU/motherboard look for high bus speed as well as high mhz speed. One of the reasons I like amd better most of the time the bus speed is faster.

[Devant]

well as I am going to be building a new rig after the holidays when I get some money back, I'm not too concerned with replacing everything in this old hunk of junk. Was just looking to spend about 150$ to get enough fps to play tf2 which I think the video card + cpu will do. My new computer will have all top of the line parts.

[$uCkY-p|aYeR]

I understand please get with me before you buy parts... I get you the best bang for your buck... and if my assumption is correct with a dual core CPU I don't think you will improve the fps by much more then 30 more fps so should be around 60-100 fluctuating. Cause I think your memory and HD still going to bottleneck but 60-100 is good enough to play until the new rig gets built i have to play with 10-60fps depending on the map until I get my new rig on Income tax return day.

[Devant]

okay well hardware is coming today so the final decision is upon me....update bios or don't update bios?

[$uCkY-p|aYeR]

don't update bios until it doesn't work.. IF it don't work put old cpu in then update bios but I doubt you will have to update bios.

[StarYoshi]

don't update bios until it doesn't work.. IF it don't work put old cpu in then update bios but I doubt you will have to update bios.

This ^

Also, the memory is not an issue. Memory is only a legitimate bottleneck for your system when it comes to quantity, which you have plenty of. You aren't a benchmarking fiend like I am, so no worries :3